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Tackle Boko Haram with Intelligence, Not Bravado05 Jul 2011 Excerpts: With the election of Tambuwal as the Speaker of House of Representatives against the zoning formula of Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), what is your view on zoning in PDP, do you see it as being dead? I have said on record before that the emergence of Jonathan himself at the primaries was an obituary for zoning. Sometimes, good people can argue on the same topic. Both sides of the arguments are valid, the argument for merit and the argument for zoning. In a pluralistic society like ours, the argument on zoning is understandable. But in the case of House of Representatives situation and in the case of Jonathan, people argued on the basis of merit and they won. I think that anybody who wants to carry the zoning argument now has quite significant precedents which have been set against it. So, if you ask me I will tell you that yes the argument for zoning has been dealt a severe blow, a fatal blow in my opinion by the election of Tambuwal as the Speaker of House of Representatives.This has been buttressed by some of the fiercest proponents of zoning now offering their congratulations. What calibre of people are you expecting in Jonathan's cabinet? Many people ask me do I think President Jonathan would perform, and I said that he has all the opportunity to deliver. The people’s expectations of him are high but they are focused, and I think they are focused on power. If he gets power right, people will describe him as a saint, but if he does not, people will see him as a failure so he has a very clear, very focused expectation placed on him. Yes, it is high but if he is focused, he can deliver. I think the cabinet he puts together will be the first litmus test for the kind of administration we expect to see. If he puts a cabinet together devoid of personal sentiments, it would help a lot in establishing the kind of legacy he will need to leave behind. I have always said that it is recognised that the failure of his cabinet would be seen as his failure. That is why I for one sympathise with the fact that he needs to choose people he is comfortable with and this is where you have to strike a balance between politics and governance. You cannot wish away politics but in governance ultimately you will be held accountable for the kind of administration you run. In Rivers state for example, we know Ajumogobia is an asset to any President, so we expect him to remain, yet there is a sentiment that others should be given a chance. This is the kind of reality the President has to deal with but I am sure he knows what to do. Win-Win is still possible not only in Rivers but in the rest of Nigeria. Governance and politics can find a balance. Nigerians do not want to hear excuses. How do you think the President can effectively address the problem of unemployment and power generation? Well, without any doubt unemployment is a major issue, it is a major challenge. It can be very destructive. We have heard about it and seen it in the North as was in the Niger Delta. I have mentioned this severally before now. The absence of productive employment is clearly an issue. Power generation is also a clear issue that must be addressed to encourage business and diversify the economy but how many people can run businesses competitively while having to buy diesel to keep their company running? This is a clear index that exposes the failure of government. Few serious companies can look at Nigeria as a serious entity if they can’t provide the basics for their people. We have the population, bright people, low labour costs, flexible labour laws and very adaptable people but we can see that the big organisations prefer neighbouring countries. What am I saying? I am saying that the more you encourage private investors to come and invest, the more likely you are going to provide jobs. So power is essential and must be addressed now. I predict the President will want to do more than four years but realises that he can only do this if he cracks power, so I expect him to crack it. Once that is done, forget zoning, forget sentiments, forget status quo, and behold a new order where merit will take precedence. I have watched his body language and his words and I can see where he is going. He will be very difficult to stop. His greatest asset is the incompetence of those who came before him. His greatest liability will be his next four years. The House of Representatives was recently embroiled in N10billion loan scam, what is your comment on the startling revelation? I think the investigation should be allowed to get to the bottom of the matter, you can't sweep everything under the carpet. I have always argued that EFCC sometimes leaves a lot to be desired but whether there are political undertones or not it is important that they get to the bottom of this and establish the rights and the wrongs. What would not be acceptable is that if we don't get a conclusion and we just allow something the matter to continue to hang unresolved or silenced. This outcome is not good. It is important that we reach conclusion and I am looking forward to the conclusion of this particular investigation. Don't you think our lawmakers' pursuit of self-interest against collective interest of the nation is absurd? It is. I don't think anybody will deny that our lawmakers have not come out really good over the past few years and people genuinely believe that the National Assembly has not pursued the interests of the country. But I think those are general statements and I want to avoid anything general especially now that we have a new National Assembly coming in with the likes of Tinubu and co. These people will represent people. What the House of Representatives have done now demonstrates that merit can stand above party politics. There is now doubt that the National Assembly did a few good things with the recent passing of FOI and Health Bills and a couple of others have not hurt their image. Clearly the new assembly still have a lot of recovery to do and I think they have an opportunity to start that recovery now and we look forward to it. I am looking forward to how they progress on the PIB Bill, constitutional amendments, creation of states, reviewed revenue sharing formula, etc and if they do that we may begin to say self-interest is no longer there and national interest is where it should be. Is the truce between former governor of Rivers State Peter Odili and Governor Rotimi Amaechi real? A lot of things have been said in the past. I want to give Odili the benefit of the doubt. The kind of administration he ran was the kind of administration many of his colleagues ran. It was the kind of country we were in. I am not trying to defend him, thankfully Nigeria has transformed, Rivers State is now at a different level. The support Odili gave Amaechi recently is welcome, I am glad it came after the election so that nobody can claim to be the source of Amaechi’s victory. Amaechi’s victory came from God and therefore his responsibility and accountability will also go to God. I think that is timely and I am grateful for that. Rivers state has peace and all who resist it will fail. Others should take a cue. We don't have any godfathers in Rivers State. The people are our godfather while we continue to take our guidance from God the Father. Are you satisfied with post amnesty programme in the Niger Delta region? No. I am tired of talking about this. Refer to the Niger Delta Technical Committee report. We need to move beyond rewarding the youths that carried arms to also encouraging the ones that did not. What we achieved was a reduction in arms not a removal of arms. Recent clashes show they still exist. We are only delaying the inevitable. Only a multi-faceted approach will address it. The Niger Delta Ministry has no business being in Abuja. When this is addressed, you will start to see the beginnings of a holistic solution. Though 2015 is still years away, don't you think INEC should start preparing itself? They should and they will. Those of us who celebrated Jega were not disappointed. In 2015 I am sure we will not be disappointed either. I predicted that the elections in 2011 would be freer and fairer but not good enough. That is what happened. Iwu and the disgrace he represented lasted far too long. Jega had too little time but at least he was honest and gave Nigerians a status report as he progressed. 2015 should be given similar treatment, the relevant priority and critical attention because lapses will not be tolerated. The eyes of the world are on Nigeria. Recently on a tour of institutions in Ghana with some young Nigerians I am mentoring, we visited their equivalent of INEC where one of the officials told us off camera that Nigerians know their medicine but refuse to take it. There is nothing like a free and fair election. It is food to the soul and even the looser can afford a smile. I just witnessed Silverbird’s final screening for the Most Beautiful Girl in Nigeria competition coming up on the 25th where I was a judge. The process that produced the final list was so smooth that we all felt proud that we were part of something clean. That is the kind of outcome we expect in 2015. We cannot afford to play with people’s lives. How do we address religious and ethnic problems in Nigeria? So many reports on these subjects have been prepared without action. As a victim of this policy of setting up committees you don’t listen to, I am aware that many true and real solutions exist if only leaders will listen. But if you want my undiluted opinion, I will say that by addressing employment issues and social issues we can reduce the number of idle minds politicians take advantage of for religious and ethnic violence. In Rivers state we encourage social integration. I hope we all start to become more accepting of each other. I think we may soon see a Commissioner in our state who is not from our state. That is progress. We cannot stop there. We must also start to prosecute culprits to act as a deterrent no matter how highly they are placed. The recent politics has divided Nigeria more than ever before. It is Mr President who should take the lead in promoting harmony and reconciliation. Nobody is too big or too small. They are all important. He is the President of the good the bad and the ugly. Recent developments do not leave me with that impression. I hope I am wrong. Even bad people have good within them and vice versa. Having said that I must appeal to all those who believe that crawling back into an ethnic shell provides a cover for tomorrow to have a rethink. If we all do that, where is the future for Nigeria? We need a Nigerian agenda, not a Northern agenda or a South West agenda or Ijaw agenda. There is no place for this in mainstream politics. What is your take on FOI Bill? Progress. Any law that promotes transparency is a good thing. Now we have to use it. Many laws exist that are not tested. This should not be one of them. My two major concerns are: will it trickle down to the states and by extension the local governments where the people actually reside and secondly what is the implication of the Official Secrets Act? Without seeing the detail it will be hard to judge but in summary and at first glance, it represents progress. What do you think could be done about the upsurge in Boko Haram attacks? I have always wondered why we wait for things to escalate before we started showing interest, we should have prevented bomb blast, prevented killings of innocent citizens and prevented major institution being threatened a long time ago. It baffles me that when things started happening that we suddenly pick an interest, why is it that it is your child that was kidnapped and you started taking kidnapping seriously? Why is it that it is the person you are related with that is affected before you started to do something? The problem of Nigeria can be seen by most naked eyes, but they won’t do anything about it until it comes to their door step. It is clear to me that this case of Boko Haram could be likened with that of MEND and this is not battle that you can win on bravado, this is a battle that requires many things, most especially intelligence. Talk about military intelligence, natural intelligence and intelligence in all areas. Before you start talking about defeating Boko Haram we must first of all understand it, before understanding it you must first of all appreciate the contest in which they were established. In a recent interview I granted I said unemployment, lack of proper education is the kind of fuel Boko Haram thrives on and it becomes absolutely critical to tackle these problems for us to remember first of all that they are Nigerians who have grievances. Some people said why don’t they give them what they want? I said it is not that simple because if you give them what they want they will ask for more. Some people said kill them that is equally not simple, unlike MEND that had camps, there is no clear base in which to attack. How do you attack people on the street? So I believe the Issue of Boko Haram requires intelligence you cannot use a blunt instrument to tackle this issue; we must use a sharp and precise instrument to achieve this objective. With the recent suicide bombing that Boko Haram has introduced, is the nation not heading towards disaster as it is being witnessed in Iraq and some Arab countries? For those of us that had traveled around the world, it baffles me how relax our security is. Boko Haram and MEND had a field day against our security agencies, I would have thought by now everybody will recognize the risk that we are facing, we have seen detonated bombs, we have seen suicide bombers and the truth of the matter is that the future is scary. It is becoming clearer now that the status quo as far as security in this country is concerned will not survive. But certainly the way forward for us is to work hard towards reducing the rate of such attacks of course, that is just the area of security but we should also look at the area of education and re-orientation. There are some extreme elements that do not want progress regardless of what the government does, I think it beholds on the government to slowly de-radicalize the society for those that have objections to the status quo, they should reach out to them and there are some people that are sympathetic to the Boko Haram course but will not subscribe to it, those people need to be isolated and those that need to be brought to the main stream to the point that you now isolate the extremist. When you now isolate the extremist they will now become obvious, unfortunately when you look the northern part of the country you find out that there are some disgruntled people and this Boko Haram people can mix among these many disgruntled people and it is common sense that for you to truly identify these Boko Haram people, you have to isolate them and for you to isolate them is to bring many people in the north into the main stream and I think if we can that this dooms day scenario we are painting in the picture will not come. Don't you think there are some cabals that are behind this ugly incident and are bent on making Nigeria ungovernable for Jonathan? It is not out of context. It is a very strong likelyhood. There is no doubt that some organisations that are hell bent that will make sure the status quo do not favour the sitting president. But I think this goes beyond Jonathan, but even the state government and smaller unit of government, there is still attack and this happened even before Jonathan became the President. I think the agenda is wider than Jonathan. But as I said, the best way to tackle the issue is to isolate the radical elements and if you isolate the radical elements you can identify them and the way to do this is not to go outside in, inside the communities is where you start this process of isolation, in other words the moderate individuals who are dissatisfied but do not subscribe to the level of violence need to be recruited and brought onside and to me this is where Atiku and the likes need to be involved. If people who are dissatisfied with this government are brought on board then absolutely we can eradicate the radical elements. Considering your relationship with Atiku, if you are called upon to serve in Jonathan's administration will you accept it? I must say that if I want to be controversial with the truth, and I must say that many people will compromise that position will be unacceptable. I think my position right now to society is to offer honest frank and sincere perspective. I think Nigeria needs to change direction, I think the status quo can no longer prevail and unless we want things to improve we will end up in the dooms day scenario that Nigerians across the country are beginning to predict. I think it is safe for me where I am right now, I think soon enough we will know how serious president Jonathan is and at that point I can take a decision whether I want to be involved in his administration, but for now honestly I think my position is to focus on my state while reflecting on national issues on principle that is based on sincerity. If you are in Jonathan's position, how would you address the Boko Haram and insecurity issues? My philosophy had always been the philosophy of engagement even the governor of my State Amechi and I disagreed. I don’t believe that everybody is a criminal; I believe there are people who have good intentions but pursue it through illegal means. My view on it is to isolate those people and you must take all well meaning Nigerians and bring them onboard, for me that is the first thing I need to do. If anybody denied that Nigeria is not divided like before, that person is not saying the truth, Nigeria is more divided more than before and I believe the best way to heal those wounds is to show that the good, the bad, and the ugly. North, East, West and south are all stakeholders to the Nigeria and what we must do to help us is to ensure that the people are engaged in the running of the government and we must ensure that our people are open, transparent and accommodating. If we can’t do that we leave the people with no option than to rebel. I think Jonathan’s first choice of responsibility is to be open and transparent. Next thing he needs to do is to tackle the issue of unemployment and the only way he can do that is by power, if he tackles power then he can tackle unemployment. If he does that then he now create a situation where you have situation where you have minimum number of youths who are unemployed, who are going to be used for this exercise. If you look carefully most of the youths that are used for suicide bombing are unemployed youths. And if these people are gainfully employed, the rate of bombings will be reduced and their families are going to enjoy them more. If we can give people meaningful employment and sense of purpose, it will reduce the numbers of potential recruits for this exercise. If he does that and we start to improve on the social security of people especially people in the North, then we can say we have a way forward but as it is going there is one issue and one area that I can begin to predict and that is tomorrow we will start talking about amnesty for Boko Haram and just like we are paying the youths of Niger delta billions and millions of naira. Boko Haram youths will start saying you should give them billions of naira too. So you have a government whose over head are running or firing out of control all because you want the youths to desist from violence that is not practical, that is not sustainable and that is not good for our government.
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